♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," A STATE LAWMAKER WRITES A NEW BOOK ABOUT STATE LEGISLATURE.

ALSO TONIGHT, EXPERIENCING WORLD TRAVEL IN A NEW WAY.

AND LOCAL AUTHOR CHRISTINA ESTES TALKS ABOUT HER NEW PHOENIX BASED MURDER MYSTERY.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP TODAY MET WITH UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

ZELENSKY'S MEETING WAS NOTHING LIKE THE COMBATIVE TONE IN PREVIOUS VISIT WHEN HE WAS BERATED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP AND VICE PRESIDENT J.D.

VANCE, THEY WILL GENIAL WITH ZELENSKY EMPHASIZING THE NEED FOR PEACE.

>> WE NEED TO STOP THE WAR WITH RUSSIA AND NEED SUPPORT, AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN, WE'LL DO A LOT FOR THIS, AND I THINK WE SHOW WE ARE STRONG PEOPLE AND WE SUPPORT THE IDEA OF THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENT TRUMP, TO STOP THIS WAR TO MAKE DIPLOMATIC WAY OF FINISHING THIS WAR.

TED: ZELENSKY WAS SUPPORTED BY EUROPEAN LEADERS WHO FLEW TO WASHINGTON IN HOPES OF GETTING U.S. SECURITY GUARANTIES AND A CEASE-FIRE WITH RUSSIA, BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID WHILE HE WANTS THE WAR STOPPED, THAT DOES NOT MEAN CALLING FAIR CEASE-FIRE.

>> I LIKE THE CONCEPT, YOU KNOW, I LIKE THE CONCEPT OF A CEASE-FIRE FOR ONE REASON BECAUSE YOU'D STOP KILLING PEOPLE IMMEDIATELY, AS OPPOSED TO TWO WEEKS OR ONE WEEK OR WHATEVER IT TAKES, BUT WE CAN WORK A DEAL, WORKING THE PEACE DEAL WHILE FIGHTING, WE HAVE TO FIGHT.

TED: AND THE PRESIDENT SAID NOTHING TO DISPEL REPORTS HE'S INCLUDING THE SURRENDERING OF LAND IN ORDER TO END THE FIGHTING.

>>> DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS IN TEXAS ENDED A TWO-WEEK WALKOUT AND PROTEST OF REPUBLICAN EFFORTS TO REDRAW CONGRESSIONAL MAPS.

DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS RETURNED TO SUPPORTERS CHANTING THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE BUT THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IS EXPECTED TO QUICKLY PASS A CONGRESSIONAL MAP THAT FAVORS REPUBLICANS AND CALLED FOR BY PRESIDENT TRUMP.

OF NOTE, CALIFORNIA STATE LAWMAKERS ARE EXPECTED TO MOVE FORWARD ON A MEASURE THAT REDRAWS THAT STATE'S CONGRESSIONAL MAPS IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRATS AS A RESPONSE TO THE REDISTRICTING IN TEXAS.

>>> STATE SENATOR JOHN KAVANAGH HAS WRITTEN A NEW BOOK HOW LEGISLATURES WORK AND THE COMPLEX WORLD OF LAW MAKING.

THE BOOK IS TITLED STATE LEGISLATURES AN OWNER'S MANUAL AND THE AUTHOR IS A FREQUENT GUEST ON ARIZONA, WE WELCOME BACK STATE SENATOR JOHN KAVANAGH.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

TED: WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO HOLD YOUR FIRST BOOK?

>> EMPOWERING, FLATTERING AND HUMBLING BECAUSE I MAY GET QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

>> I BET YOU WILL.

THAT'S A LOT OF STUFF IN THERE, LOT OF INFORMATION, AN INTRODUCTORY BOOK ABOUT LEGISLATURES, ARIZONA OR LEGISLATURES IN GENERAL.

>> IN GENERAL.

I WROTE IT BECAUSE I ASKED PRESIDENT CROW A COUPLE YEARS AGO IF I COULD TEACH A COURSE ON STATE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE I WAS A COLLEGE PROFESSOR ALSO, AND HE SAID YES, AND NORMALLY IN MY CRIMINAL JUSTICE FIELD, IF I HAD A NEW TOPIC, I WOULD GET THE INTRODUCTORY TEXTBOOK, WHICH WOULD HAVE HISTORY, STRUCTURE, PROCESS, THEY'RE ALL BOILER PLATE.

THERE WAS NONE FOR STATE LEGISLATURES.

I GATHERED THE INFO FOR THE COURSE AND DECIDED TO SPEND TIME REFINING IT AND TURNING IT INTO A TEXTBOOK.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, WHEN I GOT THE BOOK AND LOOKED IT OVER, I SAID THIS LOOKS LIKE A TEXTBOOK, IT IS, ISN'T IT?

>> IT IS, NOT JUST FOR STUDENTS, IT RELATES A LOT TO MY ARIZONA EXPERIENCES BUT COULD APPLY TO ANY STATE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL VERY, VERY SIMILAR IN NATURE.

TED: OKAY, SO IT EXPLAINS HOW LAWS ARE MADE, CORRECT?

EXPLAINS THE BACKGROUND, EVERYTHING FROM DRAFTING, NAVIGATING, NEGOTIATING, ALL THESE KINDS OF THINGS.

>> BY THE WAY, IT'S NOT JUST FOR STUDENTS.

A NEW STATE LEGISLATOR OR VETERAN WOULD REALLY BENEFIT FROM THIS BECAUSE IT WOUND UP BEING 394 PAGES BECAUSE THE MORE I RESEARCHED IN ONE AREA, THE MORE OTHER AREAS THAT HAD TO BE DISCUSSED CAME UP AND WOUND UP BEING 394 PAGES.

TED: YEAH.

>> IF YOU'RE A CITIZEN, LOBBYIST, ANYBODY THAT INTERACTS WITH LEGISLATORS WILL BENEFIT FROM THE BOOK.

TED: WHEN YOU TALK TO FOLKS THAT AREN'T INVOLVED THAT MUCH IN THE LEGISLATURE BUT WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT LAWS, MORE ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE BOOK, WHAT SURPRISES THEM MOST ABOUT THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS?

>> THAT IT'S NOT LIKE THE CARTOON HANDOUT THEY WERE GIVEN IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL WHEN THEY VISITED THE STATE CAPITOL WITH THE LITTLE CARTOON FIGURES AND THE LITTLE PATH.

THIS GOES THROUGH THE FORMAL PROCESS, BUT THIS ALSO GOES THROUGH THE INFORMAL PROCESS, THE WAY IT'S REALLY DONE.

IT'S KIND OF PART EXPOSE BUT NOT IN A RACY WAY.

TED: WHEN YOU SAY HOW IT'S REALLY DONE, EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN.

GIVE US AN EXAMPLE?

>> WELL, THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT ALL BILLS MUST BE READ PUBLICLY ON THE FLOOR THREE SEPARATE TIMES, THREE SEPARATE DAYS TO GIVE PEOPLE A HEADS-UP THAT A BILL IS COMING.

I CAN DO THAT USING THE INFORMAL PROCESS, AND NOT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION, IN ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN HOURS.

VERY SIMPLE, I FIND A BILL, WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN FIRST READ SITTING IN THE COMMITTEE, I HAVE THE COMMITTEE CHAIR DO WHAT'S CALLED A STRIKE EVERYTHING AMENDMENT, WHERE THE FIRST LINE SAYS STRIKE EVERYTHING BELOW ME, AND THEN YOU REPLACE IT WITH THE SECOND BILL.

YOU IMMEDIATELY GO TO THE FLOOR, SECOND READ THAT BILL, AND THEN SAY AT 7:00 AT NIGHT, GUESS WHAT HAPPENS AT 12:01, IT'S THE THIRD DAY AND YOU FINISHED THE BILL.

TED: OKAY, YOU'VE BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE 19 YEARS, HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT KIND OF A PROCESS?

>> TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I'M STILL LEARNING BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE IS A COMPLICATED ANIMAL, AND I WAS SURPRISED HOW MUCH I LEARNED IN RESEARCHING THIS BOOK.

TED: I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT THAT, YOU SAY IT'S A COMPLICATED ANIMAL.

HOW DO YOU MAKE IT SO IT'S CLEAR AND ACCESSIBLE TO THOSE WHO AREN'T NECESSARILY BUDDING LAWMAKERS?

>> WELL, AS YOU MAY KNOW, I'M KIND OF -- I LIKE TO GAB.

I'M KIND OF COMMUNICATIVE.

I TAUGHT FOR OVER 25 YEARS AT ASU AND SCOTTSDALE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, SO I SPENT A LOT OF TIME TRYING TO EXPLAIN OFTEN COMPLEX CRIMINAL JUSTICE TOPICS TO STUDENTS, SO YOU LEARN BECAUSE WHEN YOU FIRST START TEACHING AND NOT COMMUNICATING, YOU LOOK IN THE CLASSROOM AND EVERYBODY HAS A PERPLEXED LOOK, YOU IMMEDIATELY CORRECT AND CHANGE.

AFTER A FEW YEARS, YOU LEARN TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

TED: WHEN WE HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW, WE'VE HAD YOU ON A FEW TIMES, YOU REPRESENT THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE AISLE ON THESE ISSUES.

YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN, A STRONG REPUBLICAN AND A LONGSTANDING REPUBLICAN.

IS THIS A REPUBLICAN PERSPECTIVE ON THE PROCESS?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WHEN I WENT TO COLLEGE, WE HAD SOME PROFESSORS WHO WOULD PUT POLITICS INTO THE COURSE.

I NEVER LIKED THAT.

NOT IF THEY DIDN'T DO BALANCED.

THROUGHOUT MY 25 YEARS OF TEACHING COLLEGE, CRIMINAL JUSTICE AT ASU AND SCOTTSDALE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, I NEVER, NEVER PUT POLITICS INTO MY COURSE.

IF I DO, I PRESENT THE ARGUMENTS FOR BOTH SIDES AND LET THE STUDENTS DECIDE BECAUSE MY JOB IS TO TEACH, NOT TO PROPAGANDIZE.

THIS BOOK, I TAKE PRIDE IN BEING TOTALLY DEVOID OF PARTISAN SPIN, BUT GIVES BOTH SIDES OF CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES LIKE TERM LIMITS.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

ARE THERE BOTH SIDES -- THE DESCRIPTION OF THE BOOK INCLUDES CHALLENGES POSTED BY THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE.

THAT COULD BE TOUCH AND GO THERE.

EXECUTIVE OVERREACH IS MENTIONED, JUDICIAL ACTIVISM IS MENTIONED.

CAN THEY BE BUZZ WORDS ON THE RIGHT OR LEFT SIDE?

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> THEY'RE BUZZ WORDS DEPENDING ON WHICH SIDE THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE IS PROMOTING AND STAND FOR.

BUT THERE ARE INHERENT PROBLEMS.

AGAIN, THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE COULD BE REPUBLICAN WITH A DEMOCRAT LEGISLATURE OR VICE VERSA.

SO IT GOES BOTH WAYS.

TED: DID YOU GET FEEDBACK FROM COLLEAGUES -- WHEN YOU WROTE THIS, DID YOU HAVE PEOPLE LOOK IT OVER AND WHO DID YOU HAVE LOOK IT OVER?

>> I GAVE IT TO A FEW PEOPLE.

I GAVE IT TO CHIEF CLERKS.

SOME OF OUR LEGISLATIVE ATTORNEYS.

I GAVE IT TO A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE WHOSE NAME I WON'T MENTION, I'M NOT SURE HOW HE CAN GET INVOLVED IN THE COMMERCIAL THING AND GAVE IT TO THE NATIONAL HEAD OF STATE LEGISLATURES.

THEY GAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK, THEY WERE IMPRESSED BY THE BOOK.

TED: AND YOU REFERRED THIS EARLIER, WHO DO YOU WANT -- WHO IS THE BOOK DESIGNED TO REACH AND WHO DO YOU WANT TO SEE BUY IT?

>> IT'S AN OWNER'S MANUAL, IF YOU'RE A LEGISLATURE, YOU HAVE OWNERSHIP, YOU SHOULD KNOW IT.

IF YOU'RE A CITIZEN, ADVOCATE, YOU SHOULD KNOW IT.

IF YOU'RE A LOBBYIST WHO WORKS IN THE LEGISLATURE, YOU SHOULD KNOW HOW IT WORKS.

REPORTERS, ANYBODY WHO DEALS WITH THE LEGISLATURE OR WANTS TO UNDERSTAND IT WOULD BENEFIT FROM THE BOOK.

TED: LAST QUESTION, DO YOU THINK FELLOW LAWMAKERS WOULD BENEFIT FROM THIS BOOK?

>> I WOULD.

THOSE WHO DON'T THINK POLITICALLY LIKE I DO, I HOPE THEY DON'T LEARN QUITE AS WELL AS I DID.

TED: YOU WANT YOUR 19 YEARS TO HOLD ON STRONG.

CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK, A PLEASURE TO SPEAK WITH SOMEONE WHO WHEN THE FIRST BOOK COMES OUT.

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO DO THIS, AGAIN?

>> ABOUT A YEAR, ON AND OFF.

TED: ANOTHER BOOK IN THE WORKS?

>> I MAY UPDATE THIS WHEN I SEE HOW A.I.

SETTLES IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS.

TED: MAYBE IT HELP YOU.

>> IT WILL WRITE MY BOOK.

TED: SENATOR KAVANAGH, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

.

TED: ASU'S LIFE LONG LEARNING INSTITUTE IS OFFERING A NEW WAY FOR SENIORS AND NOT SO SENIOR PEOPLE TO SEE THE WORLD BY WAY OF PROFESSOR-LED TRAVEL ADVENTURES.

WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE PROGRAM AS PART OF OUR MONTHLY AARP SPONSOR SEGMENT THAT HIGHLIGHTS ISSUES IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

TED: I THINK I MANGLED ALL THAT.

THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY FOR SENIORS, CORRECT?

>> CORRECT.

THIS IS PROGRAMMED FOR ANYONE 50 OR BETTER, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO BE 50 OR BETTER.

WE GIVING OPPORTUNITIES FOR LIFE LONG LEARNING, ACCESSIBLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR LIFE LONG LEARNING AND TRAVEL AND COMMUNITY BUILDING FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO TAKE PART IN IT.

TED: THIS IS NOT YOU GO ON A BIG OLD SHIP AND GET SERVED ROTTEN FOOD AND JUMP IN THE POOL.

THIS IS FOR FACULTY-LED TRIPS AROUND THE WORLD?

>> TRAVEL REIMAGINED.

TAKING EXPERTISE FROM ASU OR COMMUNITY-LED EXPERTISE AND PAIRING IT WITH TRAVEL.

WE SAW A LITTLE WHITE SPACE IN THE MARKET AND DECIDED WE HAVE SO MANY EXPERTS IN THE FIELD AND AT ASU THAT COULD LEAD CURIOSITY AND DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES WITHIN TRAVEL, NOT JUST GOING OFF THE CRUISE SHIP AND GOING TO A TOUR OR DOING THESE THINGS, BUT GOING TO A -- LIKE THE ACROPOLIS AND THEN HAVING COFFEE THE NEXT DAY WITH THE PROFESSOR AND TALKING ABOUT WHAT -- HOW THE ACROPOLIS CAME.

ALL THE THINGS THEY HAD TO OFFER.

YOU'RE NOT FORCED TO DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS BUT THERE TO TAKE PART IN, IF YOU WANT.

TED: YOU MENTIONED ACROPOLIS, IN GREECE, THIS IS OCTOBER COMING UP, THE TRIP TO GREECE?

>> YEAH, WE'VE HAD THREE PREVIOUS TRIPS BEFORE THIS.

WE TOOK A TIP TO THAILAND, AND WE TOOK A TRIP TO BELIZE AND FRANCE, BUT THIS COMING OCTOBER, WE ARE GOING TO GREECE.

TED: WHEN YOU GO TO GREECE, HOW DOES IT WORK?

YOU FLY SOMEWHERE, WHERE DO YOU FLY?

GET ON THE SHIP AND WHERE DOES THE SHIP GO?

>> THIS IS A LAND-BASED TRAVEL.

IT'S OUT OF PHOENIX BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE IN PHOENIX, WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING FROM CALIFORNIA, COLORADO.

YOU CAN JOIN US FROM WHEREVER YOU ARE.

ONCE YOU SEE THE TRAVEL OPPORTUNITY, GREECE, YOU FLY FROM WHEREVER DESTINATION AND MEET UP IN ATHENS AND FROM ATHENS YOU'RE GOING TO BE HAVING A CURATED TRAVEL EXPERIENCE THAT WAS CREATED BY THE PROFESSOR AND THE TRAVEL COMPANY, AND YOU'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH AN EIGHT- TO NINE--DAY JOURNEY THROUGH GREECE.

TED: WOW, DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN A BOAT OR A SHIP, DOES IT?

>> SOMETIMES IT MIGHT.

THIS IS A LAND-BASED ONE AND YOU GO TO DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT THE PROFESSOR IS TELLING WHICH SPOTS THEY SHOULD GO, AND IT'S NOT THE COOKIE CUTTER TOUR.

TED: SO I'M ON THE TRIP, AND THE PROFESSOR SAYS I WANT TO GO HERE AND, THERE AND I'M THINKING, YEAH, I WANT TO GO HERE.

CAN I GO OVER HERE?

>> THERE'S DIFFERENT OPTIONS.

WE HAVE THREE OR FOUR OPPORTUNITIES ON THE TRIP THAT THE PROFESSOR PICKED OUT.

SPOTS THEY FEEL THEY'RE AN EXPERT IN AND CAN LEAD DISCUSSIONS AND MIX IN THE OTHER HOT AREAS WITHIN GREECE THAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO.

WE DON'T WANT TO OVERLOAD WITH YOU EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES, WE WANT IT TO BE A SWEETENER ON THE TRAVEL.

>> I SAW IN THE PREVIEW PARIS, EMPHASIS ON FASHION AND WINE EXPLORATION.

TAIWAN, EMPHASIS ON CULTURE AND COMMUNITY, AND THERE'S A PROFESSOR ON EACH TRIP.

PROFESSOR, HE OR SHE GOES OVER WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.

THE IDEA IS TO LEARN, HUH?

>> AND TO ENGAGE.

ANOTHER PROGRAM, THIS ONE WAS TAIWAN, AND WE'VE HAD ONE THAT'S COMING UP TO MOROCCO IN A YEAR FROM NOW, A YEAR FROM MAY, I SHOULD SAY, THAT IS MORE OF A SERVICE LEARNING.

A LITTLE BIT LIKE A PEACE CORPS BUT FOR A TRAVEL EXPERIENCE, YOU'RE GOING TO MOROCCO AND EXPERIENCING DIFFERENT THINGS, WORKING WITH ORGANIZATIONS, DOING MORE SERVICE LEARNING.

WE HAVE THAT FACULTY LED TRAVEL THAT IS MORE OF AN ADVENTURE THROUGHOUT THINGS AND WE HAVE A SERVICE ONE.

TED: I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT SERVICE LEARNING, YOU GET TO WORK A LITTLE BIT.

>> YOU DO.

YOU EMBED YOURSELF IN THE COMMUNITY, YOU WORK THROUGH DIFFERENT THINGS AND WORK WITH THE COMMUNITIES AFTERWARDS, AND IT'S REALLY TRYING TO EMPOWER AND MAKE SURE YOU LEARN ABOUT THE CULTURE, AND LIKE YOU SAID, YOU ARE GETTING INVOLVED WITHIN IT.

TED: AND AS FAR AS PROFESSORS ARE CONCERNED, DO THEY DONATE THEIR TIME?

DO THEY VOLUNTEER?

HOW DO YOU FIGURE OUT, A, WHERE YOU'RE GOING AND WHICH PROFESSOR IS GOING TOIC TAKE YOU THERE.

>> WE KNEW THIS CERTAIN PROFESSOR WE WANTED TO GO TO MOROCCO, AND WE CONTACTED MARY JANE AND SAID WOULD YOU LEAD A TRIP TO MOROCCO?

OBVIOUSLY, OLLI TAKES CARE OF A LOT OF EXPENSES IN THAT.

THEY BRING A DIFFERENT GROUP WANT AND TO SHOWCASE WHAT THEY'VE BEEN TEACHING FOR THEIR CAREER.

TED: AND THEY TEACH YOU AND YOU LEARN, NOT GOING TO BE A TEST IS THERE?

>> NO TEST, AND OLLI, PEOPLE SAY IS THERE TESTS, GRADES?

NO GRADES.

WE WANT YOU TO ENJOY THE TRAVEL EXPERIENCE, OR HAVE 100 DIFFERENT LECTURES THIS FALL.

TED: THERE ARE PREREQUISITES OF ANY KIND?

>> NO PREREQUISITES, WE WANT IT TO BE ACCESSIBLE.

IF YOU DIDN'T COMPLETE HIGH SCHOOL OR HAVE YOUR Ph.D. WE WANT EVERYONE TO ENJOY AND BUILD A COMMUNITY OF LIFE LONG LEARNERS.

TED: TO LEARN MORE WHERE DO WE GO?

>> ASU OLLI.ORG AND PICK UP THE CATALOG AT ALL DIFFERENT LOCATIONS ON THE BACK, TEMPE LIBRARY, A LOT OF DIFFERENT LIBRARIES AROUND, GLENDALE FOOTHILLS AS WELL.

TED: ASU OLLI, OLLI IS SPELLED?

>> O-L-L-I.

TED: CONGRATULATIONS ON THE PROGRAM.

SOUNDS GREAT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT.

.

TED: AWARD WINNING LOCAL JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR CHRISTINA ESTES IS BACK WITH A BRAND-NEW MURDER MYSTERY AND JOLENE GARCIA SERIES.

THE BOOK IS TITLED THE STORY THAT WOULDN'T DIE THAT DEALS WITH MURDER, POTENTIAL CORRUPTION AT CITY HALL AND EFFORTS TO HAVE THE STORY, MAYBE JOLENE GARCIA KILLED.

CHRISTINA ESTES JOINS US NOW.

CONGRATULATIONS.

>> WHAT A SETUP, TED.

THANK YOU.

TED: THIS IS BOOK NUMBER TWO, DOES IT FEEL ANY DIFFERENT THAN BOOK NUMBER ONE?

>> SO THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW FEELS -- WHEN I WAS HERE LAST TIME, I WAS NERVOUS AND GEEKY AND THIS TIME I FEEL EXCITED AND GEEKY.

TED: GOOD!

AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THE GEEKY, THAT'S ALL THAT WE CARE ABOUT.

YOU'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS NOW, AND WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS OF WRITING A BOOK.

FIRST TIME, I WOULD IMAGINE, A LITTLE ANXIOUS, WAS IT ANY BETTER THIS TIME?

>> IT WAS BETTER BECAUSE I KNEW THAT MY WRITING WAS BETTER, AND I ALSO FELT THE STORY WAS BETTER, AND I ALSO KNEW I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHETHER WE WERE GOING TO SIT IN A DRAWER THE REST OF MY LIFE.

I HAD A DEADLINE.

I NEED TO FINISH IT.

TED: THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE, WHEN YOU KNOW IT'S GOING TO GET PUBLISHED AS TO I HOPE IT GETS PUBLISHED.

WHO IS JOLENE GARCIA?

>> JOLENE IS A PHOENIX TV REPORTER, 29 YEARS OLD FROM THE MIDWEST WHO FEELS LIKE AID COMPLETE FISH OUT OF WATER IN PHOENIX.

SHE IS FICTIONAL BUT I DRAW THAT PART FROM ME.

I REMEMBER BEING A FISH OUT OF WATER WHEN I MOVED HERE FROM THE MIDWEST, WHEN I WAS IN MY LATE 20s.

SO I'M ABLE TO RECALL THOSE FEELINGS IN WRITING HER.

TED: HER RELATIONSHIP WITH HER BOSSES AND WITH HER CO-WORKERS.

DESCRIBE AS BEST YOU CAN, OVERVIEW OF THAT.

>> INTERESTING.

HOW DID ABOUT THAT.

JOLENE HAS A FAVORITE PHOTOGRAPHER, WHICH MANY REPORTERS DO, LIKE MANY PHOTOGRAPHERS HAVE FAVORITE REPORTERS, AND HER FAVORITE PHOTOGRAPHER IS NAMED NATE, AND HE SOMETIMES CALLS HER OUT BECAUSE SHE GOES TOO FAR SOMETIME BECAUSE SHE IS VERY AMBITIOUS AND PERSISTENT AS A REPORTER BUT ALSO NOT JUST SEEKING RECOGNITION, BUT ALSO SEEKING RECOGNITION SHE DID NOT GET IN HER CHILDHOOD.

SOMETIMES ALL OF THAT COMBINES AND SHE DOES QUESTIONABLE THINGS.

>> WE LEARN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT BUT NOT TOO MUCH.

YOU DON'T GIVE AWAY TOO MUCH.

I'LL LEAVE IT ALONE AT THAT.

THERE'S CITY HALL INTRIGUE HERE.

LOTS OF BUREAUCRATIC INTRIGUE.

MY QUESTION, AS I WAS READING, I WAS THINKING, BOY, HOW IS SHE KEEPING THINGS SQUARE?

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHICH PERSON IS WHICH PERSON AND WHERE ARE WE GOING?

>> MY BRILLIANT EDITOR TOLD ME YOU NEED TO REMIND THE READER WHY THE PERSON IS IN THE STORY, SO IT WAS AN EDIT, I KNOW YOU READ AN EARLY COPY, YOU DIDN'T READ THE FINISHED ONE.

THERE ARE SO MANY CHARACTERS AND WE WILL READ BOOKS THAT SOMETIMES TAKE US WEEKS SOMETIMES MONTHS, YOU DON'T SIT DOWN AND YOU'RE LIKE TED SIMONS, WHO WAS HE?

YOU NEED TO REMIND THEM.

TED: AT THE END OF CHAPTERS I NOTICE THIS THE MOST.

SHE'S DOING A NICE JOB MAKING SURE WE REMEMBER WHO THIS PERSON IS AND WHY THIS PERSON IS DOING THIS THING.

THAT WAS A TECHNIQUE THAT WAS PLANNED.

>> I SEE THAT NOW AS A READER.

BRILLIANT.

TED: WHEN YOU DON'T SEE IT AS A READER, YOU GO HEY, WAIT A MINUTE!

LOTS OF CHARACTERS, AND IT'S NOT -- I WOULDN'T CALL IT COMPLICATED BUT NOT LIKOON EASY, BREEZY READ.

THERE'S A LOT GOING ON HERE.

HOW DID YOU MAKE SURE THEY WENT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND THE CHARACTERS DIDN'T JUST FALL ALL OVER THEMSELVES WHEREVER THEY WANT TO GO?

>> I COVERED CITY HALL FOR NINE YEARS, SO CERTAINLY MY EXPERIENCES AND THE PEOPLE I ENCOUNTER INSPIRE THE CHARACTERS.

THIS IS FICTIONAL.

HOWEVER, TED, I'M GOING TO TEST YOUR KNOWLEDGE.

DO YOU REMEMBER EIGHT OR NINE YEARS AGO, THIS IS TOTAL INSIDER STUFF, GREG STANTON WAS MAYOR, HE GOT STUCK IN THE ELEVATOR AT CITY HALL.

>> YES.

I REMEMBER THAT.

>> THAT'S HOW THE BOOK OPENS WITH JOLENE IN THE ELEVATOR.

>> THE RESPONSE FROM LOCAL POLITICIANS, OBVIOUSLY THIS BOOK IS COMING OUT TOMORROW.

WE HAVEN'T HAD TOO MUCH RESPONSE ON THIS.

IN GENERAL, FROM REPORTERS IN TOWN, BESIDE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NO CHARACTERS THAT ARE ARIZONA PBS HOSTS, CHARMING, LOQUACIOUS.

>> NEXT BOOK.

TED: BESIDE THAT FAULT, DO PEOPLE SAY, PEOPLE SAY YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT ME?

>> THERE'S A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT WHO J.J. IS, JOLENE'S NEMESIS.

THERE'S A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT THAT.

LOCAL PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA REALLYPRICIOUS THE SARCASM AND SOME OF THE POKING FUN AT MANAGEMENT AND SOCIAL MEDIA AND THINGS THAT THEY REALLY CAN'T SAY BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL IN THOSE POSITIONS.

>> ANYONE WHO WORKED IN TELEVISION, NEWS UNDERSTANDS AND REALIZES AND SEES, NOW SOCIAL MEDIA IS SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN IT USED TO BE, BUT THESE DYNAMIC.

>> YEAH, IT'S TOTALLY CHANGED THE WAY LOCAL NEWS, COMMERCIAL NEWS IS PRODUCED FOR SURE.

TED: WITH THAT BOOK IN YOUR HAND.

DID IT FINISH, DID THE STORY END, THE CLIMAX AND EVERYTHING, DID IT HAPPEN THE WAY YOU ENVISIONED IT WHEN YOU STARTED WRITING?

>> MOSTLY.

I SORT OF LEFT A BIT OF A CLIFF-HANGER.

TED: YES, YOU KNOW, YES, YOU DID.

THAT SETS IT APART FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE STORY.

>> SOMETHING BIG HAPPENS TO JOLENE, AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW IT WAS GOING TO CONTINUE AND SO I WAS LIKE, I THINK I NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE AND LET THE READER DECIDE HOW THEY WANT IT TO END.

TED: BETWEEN THAT AND THE FIRST PAGE PRETTY MUCH HOW YOU PLANNED IT?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I DIDN'T PLAN?

I DIDN'T PLAN A CAREER CHANGE WHERE I'M NOW WORKING AT CITY HALL.

THAT'S A LITTLE WEIRD.

TED: YEAH, SOME EYEBROWS RAISED THERE, WE WON'T GO FURTHER WITH THAT.

SO, I'M GUESSING THERE'S ANOTHER JOLENE GARCIA NOVEL COMING DOWN THE BEND?

>> I TOTALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE THINK AND WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN BASED ON THE WAY THAT THIS SORT OF ENDS.

MY HEART IS TELLING ME SOMETHING AND WE'LL SEE WHAT JOLENE TELLS ME.

TED: RESEARCH, DO YOU DO RESEARCH ON THESE BOOKS?

>> THIS IS VERY KIND OF EASILY RESEARCHED BECAUSE IT WAS BASED ON MY NINE YEARS OF COVERING CITY HALL, AND SO I KNEW HOW THE CITY OPERATED.

I ATTENDED COUNTLESS CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS WHERE I SAW HOW POLICIES AND PASSIONS AFFECT OUR DAILY LIVES.

THERE IS A SERIOUS STORY THREAD ABOUT DEVELOPMENT AND DISPLACEMENT, AND THAT WAS COMPLETELY DRAWN FROM MY EXPERIENCE AS REPORTING.

TED: IS HOLLYWOOD OR NETFLIX CALLING YET?

>> GET ON THEM, TED!

>> THAT'S THE WAY TO GET MY NAME IN THE BOOK.

>> THAT IS A GREAT DEAL.

TED: WE'RE WORKING IT TOGETHER.

THIS SOUNDS LIKE THIS WOULD WORK, DON'T YOU THINK?

>> I WOULD BE FLATTERED IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO MAKE IT INTO A STREAMING SERIES, WHICH IS KIND OF WHAT I THINK WOULD WORK BETTER THAN A MOVIE.

SO INTERESTING TO ME, FOR SOME AUTHORS THAT'S END ALL BE ALL, THEY REALLY WANT THAT.

THIS IS MY BABY, I LOVE MY BABY, PERFECT THE WAY IT IS.

NOT PERFECT, BUT I'M HAPPY THE WAY IT IS.

TED: YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY WITH IT.

CONGRATULATIONS ON BOOK NUMBER TWO CHRISTINA ESTES.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.